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TOW
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 12:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This seems to be the hot topic of these past few weeks. Passionate discussions started when two well known gaming portals accepted ad money from operations that either have had serious issues in the past, like BoS and BetUS, or are known to be slow paying books, like Royal Sports.
 
Posters certainly did not refrain from expressing their opinions, mostly negative, about these corporate choices.
 
At the same time other Web sites, like EOG, are alligning themselves to TheOffshoreWire and SportsBookReview (and their respective forums) in denying access or visibility to questionable operations.
 
It is a fact that gaming portals bear a tremendous responsibility towards players. Promoting shady operations is seen by many as leading the sheeps to the slaughter house.
 
Some portals try to overcome this problem by offering unsecured insurance programs which usually have bizzarre strings attached such as posting requirements and so on.
 
TOW and SBR share the opinion that rogue operators should be denied any kind of visibility, not only to safeguard players but also to reward serious operators.
 
The same phylosophy has been embraced by others (EOG) and hopefully more portals will follow in the coming weeks and months.
 
While players appreciate higher standards some portals remain reluctant to accept this new concept.
 
Do posters and players believe that portals who believe in higher standards should take a proactive stance against lower standards ones ?
 
 

Post Edited (TOW) : 8/23/2005 1:00:46 PM (GMT-4)
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THE SHRINK
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 1:04 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Roberto,
 
I support your vision and mentioned your web site in a column that I recently wrote for EOG...
 
Changes on the Horizon?

written August 22nd
by THE SHRINK (Ken Weitzner)

Lately, one hot topic is whether or not questionable sports books should be allowed to advertise on gambling information web sites.

Some portals are now taking a firm stance against allowing marginal operators to appear whereas others don't seem to care.

Given the fact that there is some inherent risk when sending monies abroad, Eye On Gambling does believe that it is our responsibility to set an example by only accepting advertising revenue from proven commodities.

Why has there suddenly been a commitment to excellence by some but a complacency by others?

One factor that comes to mind is greed.  This is the only explanation I can think of to explain why successful businesses would welcome known thieves.  I can tell you firsthand that I made this mistake in the past , so I am fully aware of how tempting it can be for a web site to rationalize this behavior away.  However, it is wrong and it sets a bad precedent for others to follow.   

A site that I like and respect, Sportsbook Review, recently had this to say about the issue.

"On September 1st SBR will include in every SBR sportsbook review which sportsbooks advertise on websites where known thieves and scambooks also advertise. 

For too long the sportsbook industry leaders have looked the other way while their advertisers have supported outright player thieves and scambooks. New players will soon be able to decide for themselves if they wish to patronize sportsbooks that advertise and lend their good name to websites that support dangerous player thieves, con men, extortionists and slow/no pay sportsbooks."

All I can say is "WOW!!"

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, will the visitors who frequent these popular web sites even care? 

I am not sure.

Some have argued it's not up to the owners of web sites to perform due diligence, but rather, it is the responsibility of their gambling community to warn others of rogue sports books. 

I don't agree.

It should be pointed out that other venues besides SBR who are taking a position against accepting ad revenue from shady operators include Covers, Fezziks Place and the Offshore Wire.

Will this be a new benchmark that others will follow or will this be met with resistance? 

While I am hoping we can help make a difference, like all things in life, only time will tell...

© 2005 EOG.com

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SBR_John
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 2:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
could gaming portals play a role in eliminating rogue books ?
Only to a point. You will never eliminate greed. What we have to do is make it a "smart business decision" for these portals to take only good sportsbooks. So how do we make it a smart business decision" for guys like russ who buys a Lamborghini with BetUS and Royal's money? We isolate them. We don’t pressure them instead we pressure their competitors to be responsible.

 

Players notice far more than you think. Ken I bet noticed that his Rx posters were too often going to SBR to make their final selection. By having top sponsors players will trust you, your site will generate more signups and well, its a “smart business decision”.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 2:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
tow, shrink, and john,

the direction you guys are taking things is incredibly important to our industry. the sites that take ad money from shit books will not be able to compete in the long run...
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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 2:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Are Big Boy and onlooker on break? Figured they be in here by now.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 2:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kosar,
 
they said they were going to clean their guns in case you had a smart mouth today. they should be here soon. ;-) lol
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bigboydan
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 2:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kosar said...
Are Big Boy and onlooker on break? Figured they be in here by now.
kosar, i just now woke up.

a good capper is only as good as his info.

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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 3:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks Big Boy.
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TOW
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 3:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
what's your opinion on the topic kosar ?
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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 3:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I answered a similar question from RPM while you were gone. I don't really think it's likely that a portal can effectively pressure many books to take themselves off sites that may have a questionable book or to. It does not hurt their rep to be one of 25 banners hung with one or two rotten eggs in there. If a site produces for them, they will stay. If not, then they won't.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 3:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
you make a good point kosar, but what about a situation like at therx? do you think any of those books they already had were offended by bos going strait to the top?
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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 3:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes RPM, but that's a totally different issue.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 4:48 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
why is it different?
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cossi
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 6:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A site that I like and respect, Sportsbook Review, recently had this to say about the issue.

"On September 1st SBR will include in every SBR sportsbook review which sportsbooks advertise on websites where known thieves and scambooks also advertise. 

For too long the sportsbook industry leaders have looked the other way while their advertisers have supported outright player thieves and scambooks. New players will soon be able to decide for themselves if they wish to patronize sportsbooks that advertise and lend their good name to websites that support dangerous player thieves, con men, extortionists and slow/no pay sportsbooks."

All I can say is "WOW!!"
This is one heck of a step forward, and much appreciated by us "regular Joe's"
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 8:09 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
cossi,

yep. times are changing!
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bigboydan
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 		    Posted 8/23/2005 11:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
cossi,

yep. times are changing!
indeed

a good capper is only as good as his info.

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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 2:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Roberto, what % of gamblers do you think are even aware of these forums?

So, how much of a diffference can it really make?
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raiders72001
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 4:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't have the numbers but I would guess 5%. I could be way off. The more that players get burned the more that will become familiar with the forums. Guys will look for some type of recourse and may stumble upon the forums doing a google search. Also word of mouth will help the forums more and more. The word is getting out. I know that personally recommend a forum to someone every two to three weeks.
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bigboydan
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 5:05 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
raiders72001 said...
I don't have the numbers but I would guess 5%. I could be way off.
i think your way off raiders IMHOO

a good capper is only as good as his info.

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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 9:25 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
depends on the book actually. some of the smaller books are very heavy on the forum players, but the big books on average are probably around 3%.
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Sportscapper Island
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 9:58 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kosar said...
I answered a similar question from RPM while you were gone. I don't really think it's likely that a portal can effectively pressure many books to take themselves off sites that may have a questionable book or to. It does not hurt their rep to be one of 25 banners hung with one or two rotten eggs in there. If a site produces for them, they will stay. If not, then they won't.
 
I agree with Kosar. If a site is bringing in players, then I don't think for most it matters. Also, I dont think a book really cares about whos rouge or not, they probably care more about "how many" books a site is advertising besides them.
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TOW
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 10:17 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sportscapper and kosar....your point of view is understandable from a portal owner's perspective. My point though is related to the ethics in promoting shady or rogue operations.

Aside from sports books with a checkered past but no recent complaints.....what good does it do to players to be lead to a notoriously slow paying book ala Royal ?
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Sportscapper Island
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 10:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It does no good and should not be condoned, but their are alot of sites out there that aren't even aware of what they are promoting and their are some sites that money talks. I think that portals could play a big role if they worked together, but unfortunately everyone has their own agenda and point of views.
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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 11:24 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
why is it different?
It's different because we were talking about whether BOS' rep could cause books to leave and you mentioned about whether books would be irritated that BOS gets top billing. Yes, they are probably upset that BOS jumped to 'platinum status,' whatever the fuck that means, but it has nothing to do with their rep. If they're upset with that, then they'd be upset no matter who it was.
 
Has nothing to do with some big stand they're taking because of the BW thing 7 years ago or anything else.
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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/24/2005 11:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
TOW said...
Sportscapper and kosar....your point of view is understandable from a portal owner's perspective. My point though is related to the ethics in promoting shady or rogue operations.

Aside from sports books with a checkered past but no recent complaints.....what good does it do to players to be lead to a notoriously slow paying book ala Royal ?
I wouldn't play at Royal, but more players than not that play there love it. I don't know that i'd consider Royal 'shady' or 'rogue.' They're definitely in a grey area though.
 
Not really sure exactly what your question is.    
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