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TOW
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   Posted 5/12/2005 9:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Read the update of on the player's amicable agreement case and post your opinion in this thread.
 
Link to update

Post Edited (TOW) : 5/12/2005 9:05:15 PM (GMT-4)

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raiders72001
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   Posted 5/12/2005 9:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Roberto- When did this all take place?

It's a tough case to decide. The player asks for his full balance and is delayed getting full payment from the book. It looks as though the player wanted to make sure that he got something instead of nothing and was under duress.

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TOW
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   Posted 5/12/2005 9:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The events took place between August 2003 and October 2004. The "amicable settlement agreement" was signed in February 2005
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bigboydan
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   Posted 5/12/2005 10:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
sounds to me like the book wasn't going to pay him on red cent and, the guy was forced into acepting there offer or get nothing. if thats true then thats wrong if the player did not cheat. because, he should have been paid in full with no problems what so ever.


a good capper is only as good as his info.

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raiders72001
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   Posted 5/12/2005 10:48 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Agree with Dan here. You have to feel that the player wouldn't have received anything if he didn't accept the propasal and had gone to the forums for help first.
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bigboydan
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   Posted 5/12/2005 11:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
raiders, it's just common sense to me. i know when i got stiffed for 7k they wanted me to sign some form like this and i flat out refused to sign it. so yes i can see where the guy did what he did.


a good capper is only as good as his info.

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JC
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   Posted 5/12/2005 11:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I still don't see any mention of a bonus. What was the rollover for, just to insure they didn't investigate the account?
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TOW
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   Posted 5/12/2005 11:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
JC,

No bonus was offered for the rollover. The player was told to roll over his remaining balance to give the book a chance....
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JC
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   Posted 5/13/2005 4:28 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
He goes to take out his money. For no reason he agrees to leave HIS money there and roll it over 10x before taking it out. What was his upside?

This is one of the craziest things I have ever heard.
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TOW
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   Posted 5/13/2005 7:14 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
JC,

Well, not really no reason...the original option was to roll it over or not to get paid.....
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bigboydan
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   Posted 5/13/2005 10:50 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
they might as well held the guy at gun point because, that would have made it more clear to him from the start that he was gonna get stiffed.


a good capper is only as good as his info.

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pier0
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   Posted 5/13/2005 4:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A player scared of having no chance getting paid he would probably accept such a deal, but this guy already cashed 250,000 from them...
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stumpage
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   Posted 5/13/2005 10:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not at all surprised by this case...Grand Central has a shady side to them to say the least. I used to have the misfortune of having an account at Sportsbook911, of which some of the lowlights consisted of...

*Rolling over my deposit the required 3 plus times, then being told that my bonus was being deducted later on when I cashed some out (You can never cash out the bonus, ever, so what's the point of a rollover?)
*Being informed that I was no longer going to be allowed to bet baseball props after a run of success, before being outright banned alltogether.
*Having my deposit via Neteller briefly confiscated while I was being investigated. The "crime" was that another person had made a deposit from Neteller at roughly the same time that I had, and since we were both from Canada, it seemed very suspicious. Honestly, that was the reason.....

Grand Central affiliates should be avoided, in my opinion...
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TOW
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   Posted 5/13/2005 10:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Welcome to TOW Forum stumpage......

GC Sports uses the se called "sticky" bonus....its a non cashable bonus, however it does add up to your wagers.....

They definitely have a very tight risk management in place since October 2004, some players believe it to be way too conservative.....

The reason for which you account was placed under investigation seems odd. Merchants have a direct line with Neteller and they can verify depositors information almost in real time...

Thank you for sharing your experience with us....
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drunkguy
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   Posted 5/14/2005 3:19 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Stumpage

that family of books is definitely one to limit you quicjly if you are winning, so your story about props is not surprising.

regarding the bonus, a "sticky" bonus can be nice if you know how to take advantage of it. Gives you some extra buying power.
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drunkguy
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   Posted 5/14/2005 4:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A few weeks ago a player filed a complaint with The Offshore Wire against Grand Central. He claimed having been forced to enter into a settlement agreement when he asked for his balance ( approx 125K ) and was paid 40K as final settlement.

Eventually the player produced copy of the settlement agreement ( click here to view the agreement ).

Grand Central confirmed the existence and execution of the agreement, yet denied any duress. The player had freely accessed and withdrew approx 250K before incurring in personal problems that lead him to spend some time in a rehab center. During this lapse of time the player did not wager with Grand Central.

When the player came out of rehab he asked Grand Central to wire him the remainder of his balance, approximately 125K.

His account manager stalled his payout request and asked the player to "give the book a chance" by rolling over the balance 10 times before withdrawing.

The player reluctantly agreed to this condition, but due to his financial distress, ended up asking for his money again after a few days.

He was again denied his payout and offered the following three options :

a) Continue with the rollover agreement;
b) Have his account locked down and investigated;
c) Receive 40K as full and final settlement.

The player, in need of money, opted to choose the offer of a partial payout.

Grand Central Counselor denies having perceived or having been told by the player that he was in financial distress at the time the transaction was taking place.

Grand Central management stated having suspected irregularities, alleging that the player might have operated in cahoots with one of their employees.

The player denied any wrong doing, and this has also been confirmed by Grand Central Counselor who stated " on the other hand, Mr. XXXX was adamant that he had participated in no irregularities".

Grand Central management confirmed not having pursued any internal investigation following their initial suspects, hence they confirm not having found any factual element to support alleged irregularities.

In this scenario, and given that there is no element to discard the legitimacy of the player's claim other than the intervened transaction which the player stated having been forced to accept due to his financial distress, Grand Central had promised to review the case. A final decision was to be released last Wednesday by Grand Central CEO. Eventually this has not been the case.

After having spoken to all parties involved we have come to the conclusion that on one hand the player mistakenly accepted the transaction offered to him, yet Grand Central has provided no element to support their decision to confiscate 85K belonging to the player.

The player shall be paid in full. We still believe Grand Central will decide to do "the right thing" and pay the player the remainder of his balance.


from TOW newswire
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powers
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   Posted 5/14/2005 12:24 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hello,
 
Since I was the one at the company who was responsible for this case I will state just the facts from our side .
 
the  player  was paid out over 250k prior to the final payment of 40k (total 290k) total deposits of approx 20k
The players entire balance of 125k was sent to our Lawyers Escrow prior to any settlement arrangement
the lawyer handled the entire case to maintain integrity for both parties
 
The Player has a history of CC chargebacks (although they were settled through later deposits)
the player was not asked to roll over his balance to "give the book a chance"
the player was suspected of winning irregularities and was told that his play would be monitored prior to withdrawing any more funds.
the player opted to take a cash payment rather than be subjected to scrutiny.
the player admits and attests to in a notarized document that irregularities may have occured.
the player was not forced coericed or otherwise
 
Now that the player has nothing to lose he is claiming foul and violating the terms of the agreement in which we now have the right to sue for damages.
 
 
Alex Powers
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pier0
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   Posted 5/14/2005 12:52 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
powers said...
the player was suspected of winning irregularities and was told that his play would be monitored prior to withdrawing any more funds.
the player opted to take a cash payment rather than be subjected to scrutiny.
 From the player's point of view this makes a lot of sense, but then I don't understand why your company paid out the first 250,000 without investigating...
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bigboydan
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   Posted 5/14/2005 1:50 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
pier0 said...
 I don't understand why your company paid out the first 250,000 without investigating...
poor management


a good capper is only as good as his info.

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TOW
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   Posted 5/14/2005 6:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Alex,

First of all welcome to TOW Forum.

I don't want to doubt your side of the story but....as you are well aware I have spoken and entertained written correspondence with the lawyer that drafted the agreement on behalf of Grand Central.

The lawyer made no mention of the notarized document concerning alleged irregularities the player would have signed;

The lawyer was adamant in stating that he received only 40K related to the transaction, not the 125K you mentioned in your post.

I have also spoken to Mike....he did not mentioned the notarized document you report.

I therefore invite you to send me a scanned copy of said document via email : [email protected]

Thank you
 
p.s. Mike did mention about a charge back episode, which has been reported in the earlier coverage of the case. Mike has also explained that this episode had nothing to do with the decision to propose the "deal" to the player, and that the incident had been settled with satisfaction of both parties.
 
 
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drunkguy
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   Posted 5/15/2005 4:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
from TOW newswire:
 
Settlement agreement - GCS to sue the player ?
 
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drunkguy
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   Posted 5/15/2005 6:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
TOW said...
5/13/2005 Ratings update - GCS Group lowered from 9 to 8
Grand Central Group (Mybookie, Sportsbook911 and Betcom) lowered from 9 to 8. This downgrade is related to the partial confiscation of a players account (TOW exclusive coverage ).


Roberto, do you believe that maybe a rating of 8 is a bit generous at this time, considering the circumstances?
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TOW
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   Posted 5/15/2005 7:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
DG,

I must admit I have been carefully evaluating the circumstances before deciding to temporarily leave the rating where it stands now. The case being discussed is isolated and confined at the time when the group was still seeking a steady direction. There are no reports of slow pays / no pays at this time, nor in the recent months, with the exception of a number of checks that bounced when Pay Manager, a processor out of Belize, went belly up a few months ago. All those debts, approximately $ 100,000, were honored within days from being notified.

Additionally I still believe wisdom and justice will prevail and Grand Central will pay the player. This is what I had been told by GC owner a week ago. I know the man, and have no reason to doubt his word as of yet.
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drunkguy
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   Posted 5/15/2005 7:26 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
thanks for the clarification
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TOW
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   Posted 5/17/2005 10:33 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Alex,

I'm still waiting for the document you mentioned. Thank you.
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