The Offshore Wire Forum > Offshore Gambling Information > Offshore Sportbooks > Nigel from WWTS cancels a bet |
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BAUS
Registered Member

      
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 37
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Posted 9/7/2005 2:25 PM (GMT -5) |
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A few days ago I was looking thru some NFL lines and came across New England -275 (moneyline). So I bet that line and my balance changed accordingly and I thought everything was fine.
10 minutes later I log back into my account and notice there is no pending wagers.
I call in to WWTS and Nigel tells me he cancelled my wager. He also emailed me this:
Please note that you money line wager on the New England Patriots -275 was deleted due to an incorrect line. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Nigel S
Bet Manager
Tasman Gaming Inc.
At the time I thought "Maybe he is right. Fine." But now when I look around more I see that CRIS has NE at -300. So I'm starting to think that I probably found a good opening line, and they simply didn't like it and cancelled my bet.
So what do the members of TOW think about this one??
BAUS |
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TOW
Founder

      
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1753
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Posted 9/7/2005 2:35 PM (GMT -5) |
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BAUS,
This is the second complaint of this kind in less than 24 hours. I've send this thread to WWTS for review and comment.
Thank you for your patience. |
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Judge
Dispute Arbitration Panel Member

      
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 340
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Posted 9/7/2005 4:27 PM (GMT -5) |
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Judge
Dispute Arbitration Panel Member

      
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 340
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Posted 9/7/2005 5:52 PM (GMT -5) |
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Cris still has 300. I am betting that when the line went from 7 to 7' they didn't move the $ line. No reason to cancel a bet.
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Judge
Dispute Arbitration Panel Member

      
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 340
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Posted 9/7/2005 5:53 PM (GMT -5) |
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lucifer
sin-educator

      
Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 388
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Posted 9/8/2005 6:05 AM (GMT -5) |
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I had a similar problem with WWTS about 3-4 years ago...put a few hundred on a college basketball game 4 the next day, I'm a night person and it was an early sat tipoff...line opened around 1'.... when I woke up game was at halftime...line had moved to -5' before game....after game shows up as win on account....go to place another wager....basically a double thru with the money I originally bet and the winnings....came home later thinking I doubled up twice in one day....look in my emails first, get a we regret to inform you note....bastards cancelled both bets....and both were winners....never bet thru them again!!!!! |
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D2bets
Dispute Arbitration Panel Alternate Member
       
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 122
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Posted 9/8/2005 9:39 AM (GMT -5) |
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Not to prejudge a case that could come before the panel, but this is an absolute clear-cut case. The cancellation was unwarranted. -275 when the market range is -300 to -350 is not a bad line by any stretch of the imagination. |
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TOW
Founder

      
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1753
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Posted 9/8/2005 9:43 AM (GMT -5) |
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I honestly hope to have the case resolved without the need of the player having to file with the panel. As D2bets clearly stated its a clear-cut case. I should be hearing from WWTS later this morning. |
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D2bets
Dispute Arbitration Panel Alternate Member
       
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 122
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Posted 9/8/2005 10:34 AM (GMT -5) |
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Let me amend my statement...it is possible for it to be a bad line IF, for example, the other side was out of whack. So if the line read +300/-275 then it is a patent error that could be cnacelled within a reasonable time frame. But if the + side was less than the - then it is not a bad line. |
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TOW
Founder

      
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1753
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Posted 9/9/2005 10:52 AM (GMT -5) |
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merlyn
Registered Member

      
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 64
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Posted 9/9/2005 11:23 AM (GMT -5) |
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Though the world is not black and white, when we view this type of activity (bet cancellation), there emerges two types of books.
Book Type A realizes that the bet they accepted was, in fact, based on a line they intentionally posted at some point prior in time and somehow did not pay proper attention to market movement (if that is a factor in line adjustment). Book Type A cancels the bet and claims the "bad line" out...
Book Type B may make the same mistake but looks at the situation like this. First, if we apply a few realistic assumptions such as I have lllustrated below, then error might mean the following to the book...
Let's say the current (market) line is -325 / +275. This translates to a "juiceless" line of -287. -287 = 74.14% -275 = 73.33%. The difference is .81% which is the edge the customer has obtained if, indeed, the actual true "juiceless line" for this event is correctly reflected by the now market price of -325 / +275. If the player's combined risk and win amount equals $5000, then the error represents a loss to the book of $40.56.
Book B looks at the situation like this... They asses the true loss. They address the error internally and make corrections to proceedures (or, if this happens all too often, make necessary personel changes) and the player's bet not only stands, but the player will never even know that the bet was an unwanted wager.
To handle this any other way is the sign of what I call a "psuedo book" which is really in the business of marketing and selling product to the less informed. That is not bookmaking.
Either WWTS does not currently possess the experience to understand this situation or, they have decided to take this and other similar opportunities to "send a signal" to their clientelle that they are only interested in booking pure squares. Likely, WWTS understands this error, in the big picture, is insignificant (unless this is a common error on their part due to sloppy risk management). What is additionally likely is that they have made an internal decision to let the betting community know that WWTS is not interested in action from informed and/or educated bettors.
More and more this industry is emerging into these two, very distinct paths. The only hope for the Type A books is that they continue to cultivate business from the world of the uninformed. Likely Book Type B will more and more make this harder to accomplish.
See math below:
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-275 |
73.33% |
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70.44% |
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225 |
30.77% |
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104.10% |
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3.94% |
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-325 |
76.47% |
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74.14% |
-287 |
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275 |
26.67% |
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103.14% |
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3.04% |
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0.81% |
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$ 5,000 |
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$ 40.56 |
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BAUS
Registered Member

      
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 37
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Posted 9/9/2005 12:49 PM (GMT -5) |
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Very good analysis Merlyn. Makes a lot of sense.
Of course NE won last night.
BAUS |
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BAUS
Registered Member

      
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 37
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Posted 9/9/2005 3:32 PM (GMT -5) |
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tahoeclown
Registered Member
       
Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 5
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Posted 9/10/2005 9:17 AM (GMT -5) |
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just informed jessica this post existed merlin that post just summed up modern bookmaking 101 in a nut shell o yeah all the type b books start bopoker u dont see grandepoker pinnypoker... vote with your money vote at grande pinnacle with real bm jazz mansion del mar any more |
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Judge
Dispute Arbitration Panel Member

      
Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 340
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Posted 9/10/2005 11:04 AM (GMT -5) |
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BAUS
Registered Member

      
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 37
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Posted 9/10/2005 2:49 PM (GMT -5) |
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Still waiting....
How long does it take for them to offer up an explaination?
BAUS |
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Dr Black
Registered Member
       
Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 201
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Posted 9/10/2005 6:40 PM (GMT -5) |
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