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drunkguy
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 9/28/2005 10:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
TOW said...
DG,

You must have been distracted lately. I posted some three weeks ago at theRX that Olympic will definitely consider the ruling. Translation: they must be 100% technically convinced to abide to it.


"definitely consider" does not mean bound

so they are NOT bound to it

much easier to decide whether you want to comply or not after you hear the decision, which seems to be the case here


I am paid INDIRECTLY by the following sportsbooks: Sportsbook.com, Playersonly.com, BetCRIS, 5Dimes, Hollywood, Aces, VIPSports, BetMaker, Superbook, CaribSports, BetWWTS, Nine.com, BetRoyal, Skybook, BoDog, Millenium, Sportsbetting.com, BetGameDay, WSEX.com

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kosar
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   Posted 9/28/2005 10:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Roberto,

Can you ever answer a question directly? Just say they aren't bound by it and be done with it.
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TOW
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   Posted 9/28/2005 11:00 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My philosophy is to see the glass half full. There's obviously less ground for confrontation than seeing it half empty....yet the panel still has to rule. I'd hold comments to AFTER the ruling and its consequences.

FYI....the player initially filed with another site's arbitration panel. Believe it or not he didn't even get the benefit of a reply...I guess you know who I'm talking about. Now, in this case, there is ground for discussion. But I guess its best to keep the lid on it, the smell would make many puke.
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drunkguy
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   Posted 9/28/2005 12:34 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
TOW said...
 Translation: they must be 100% technically convinced to abide to it.
This is what I have issue with.  Why must they be 100% convinced?  Why is the burden of proof on the player?
 
If anything, the book should hold the responsibility of proving their decision.  THEY hold the money.  THEY offered the bet.  THEY accepted the bet.  and THEY cancelled the bet.
 
Player should not be required to "prove" anything.  Burden of proof should probably be on the book to justify their position, particularly since other books honored the bets.
 
IN any case, arbitration where one party is bound and the other is not is unfair.  I made this point weeks ago at RX.  The arbitration panel is essentially employed by Olympic in this case...if they find fault with the player, he is done, he has no other option.  If the panel finds fault with the book, it is now their option as to whether to abide or not.


I am paid INDIRECTLY by the following sportsbooks: Sportsbook.com, Playersonly.com, BetCRIS, 5Dimes, Hollywood, Aces, VIPSports, BetMaker, Superbook, CaribSports, BetWWTS, Nine.com, BetRoyal, Skybook, BoDog, Millenium, Sportsbetting.com, BetGameDay, WSEX.com

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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 12:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dg,

i agree with you, but lets face facts. even if a book does say they agree to the arbitration, if the ruling comes out against them, the only recourse we have if they dont comply is to downgrade them. we can do that whether they agreed to the arbitration or not.

i feel these panel members are respected industry wide. any book that refuses to comply with their ruling, will make themselves look like asses.
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kosar
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   Posted 9/28/2005 1:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...

 any book that refuses to comply with their ruling, will make themselves look like asses.
Good point. And not only will they look terrible,  it would probably cripple the book.
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drunkguy
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   Posted 9/28/2005 1:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
maybe, maybe not.

are people going to stop playing at Olympic if they refuse to comply?

I am not so sure even the forum players would, nevermind the far greater majority that does not even know of or bother with the forums

in any case, if they agreed and the reneged on it, they would look far worse. It would also look far better for them to agree now as well, so they can be seen as accepting arbitration in disputed cases.


I am paid INDIRECTLY by the following sportsbooks: Sportsbook.com, Playersonly.com, BetCRIS, 5Dimes, Hollywood, Aces, VIPSports, BetMaker, Superbook, CaribSports, BetWWTS, Nine.com, BetRoyal, Skybook, BoDog, Millenium, Sportsbetting.com, BetGameDay, WSEX.com

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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 1:25 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
DG,

again, i agree with you. if this were a smaller book, i think you would see the world rallying around this and people saying they were horrible if they don't agree to arbitration. however, this is olympic, and unfortunatly it just isn't going to happen that way.

We must rely on spiro's honor to respect and accept the panels descision and do the right thing here....
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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 1:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
drunkguy,
 
 LMAO. here is sit agreeing with you on this stuff, and now i just find out why you are doing this.
 
could you be any more agenda driven ?
 
you make me sick.
 
good luck with your little copycat arbitration panel you jumped into bed with mw for....

Post Edited By Moderator (TOW) : 9/28/2005 1:55:29 PM (GMT-4)

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drunkguy
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Total Posts : 944
 
   Posted 9/28/2005 2:23 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
drunkguy,
 
 LMAO. here is sit agreeing with you on this stuff, and now i just find out why you are doing this.
 
could you be any more agenda driven ?
 
you make me sick.
 
good luck with your little copycat arbitration panel you jumped into bed with mw for....
First off, I was saying all this stuff long ago, when me and Russ weren't even on speaking terms (check RX)
 
Secondly, MW arbitration panel has been around since before TOW was in existence.  It is taking on a somewhat new form recently, but it has been there.
 
Thirdly, why does it matter?  You don't agree now?  Or you do?  I am sure you arbitration panel members see these same flaws.  We can sit around and pretend everything is rosy, or we can identify flaws and work to correct them.  Stagnate or evolve.  I have no power to correct them, so I am just assisting in identifying them.  Take it however you want.


I am paid INDIRECTLY by the following sportsbooks: Sportsbook.com, Playersonly.com, BetCRIS, 5Dimes, Hollywood, Aces, VIPSports, BetMaker, Superbook, CaribSports, BetWWTS, Nine.com, BetRoyal, Skybook, BoDog, Millenium, Sportsbetting.com, BetGameDay, WSEX.com

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TOW
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   Posted 9/28/2005 2:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yes DG,

MW had it there for a few years now. That's the first arbitration panel the F1 player contacted. He never got a reply and gave up after the third email.

Now you understand why i am a bit wary, primarily on behalf of the players, to see it "return" with a different dress. I just hope the "body" changed as well.

I personally believe that direct acceptance would the ideal solution, however I don't mind a slower process. The panel is a useful tool at the service of the gaming community (players and books), not a "power" tool.
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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 2:31 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
oh please. you want to talk stagnant? mw's arbitration panel hasnt done anything in 4 or 5 years. major brought it up about 2 or 3 weeks AFTER tows arbitration panel was announced.

i do agree that it would be nice if books agreed to binding arbitration, but im also smart enough to realize that it's irrelevant if they agree or not. players options are the same whether or not the books have agreed to this.

if a respected panel such as tows says a book is wrong, and the book still doesnt pay, then players should avoid that particular book until such a time as the book settles things to everyone satisfaction.

if all books agree to binding arbitration, then a book fails to comply with a ruling, what will you do?

NOTHING. you have no power to do anything and neither does major wager. whats russ going to do, take their banner down? and leave royal and betus up? LOL. what a joke.....
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kosar
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   Posted 9/28/2005 2:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

RPM,

It makes a huge difference whether they agree to binding arbitration or not. I mean, without some agreement, random panels all across the net could give their 'ruling' against the book. Now, from the books point of view, without an agreement, why the hell should the books business be dictated by a random panel? I mean, nothing against these three guys, but this case has been tossed around everywhere for 6 weeks or something. A lot of respected people have come down on both sides. Without an agreement, why would Olympic change their actions based on these three particular guys?

So if they don't take action based on the opinion of 3 guys whose opinion they didn't ask for in the first place, then that's understandable and it doesn't make them look any better or worse.

Conversely, if they have a binding arbitration agreement with a site and totally disregard the ruling, then that is a totally different story. 

 

 

 

 

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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 2:52 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kosar,

imo they agreed to respect the opinions of this panel when they took the time to send the information. the tow panel has nothing to gain or lose by siding with the book or the player. they are completely unbiased and well respected in the industry.
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kosar
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   Posted 9/28/2005 3:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
kosar,

imo they agreed to respect the opinions of this panel when they took the time to send the information.
That's bullshit. I'm sure you guys bugged the hell out of them for a long time and they finally decided to respond to you. I'm equally as sure they didn't want to get bashed on the forum by you guys for 'not responding.' 
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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 3:40 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
i think you underestimate spiros honor and integrity.....
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kosar
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   Posted 9/28/2005 3:54 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
i think you underestimate spiros honor and integrity.....
 lol- yeah, ok. I don't think his honor and integrity are affected by whether he abides by TOW's panels 'ruling' or not. Especially since he never agreed to abide by it. Maybe if the panel rules for the player, he will compromise, but if he doesn't his honor is not at stake.
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TOW
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   Posted 9/28/2005 3:55 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Glad to see you in a great shape kosar...been missing your abrasiveness lately ;-)
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RPM
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   Posted 9/28/2005 3:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
kosar,

i meant that i believe he respects this panels opinion.
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kosar
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   Posted 9/29/2005 4:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Rpm,

What if there's a split decision? Does that affect anything, and are you even going to say that it was 2-1 in the official 'ruling?'
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RPM
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   Posted 9/29/2005 5:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kosar,

I believe all the rulings will be announced as having been either a majority decision or unanimous, so that will tell you if it were 3-0 or 2-1
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lucifer
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   Posted 9/29/2005 5:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I can see this is a heated debate, but in all honesty, Spiro is probably the most honorable guy in this business...I'm sure that he will find a way to work things out...If he sent all the info to the panel, does it matter if he was prodded or not...I'll bet betus never offered to send info...I understand people are really upset, but this is a presidence case, this could become a new "rule" within the books "action" section...Give them the time and your patience to see this thru.  You guys are already jumping the gun, assuming that olympic will screw its players.  Give them the chance to show if they have integrity before you debase them
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Judge
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   Posted 9/29/2005 6:06 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think it says alot about Spiro that he has been part of the process. Will he agree to a ruling against him? Who knows?
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