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THE SHRINK
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   Posted 7/12/2005 1:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

ROYAL DISPUTE RESOLVED

On July 11, the Player in the now-infamous Royal dispute voluntarily subjected himself to a polygraph test arranged by Jay Cohen, The General, and myself.

The player was asked two SIGNIFICANT questions, namely:

1. On
June 12, 2005 or any time in the month of June, did you place any bet of any kind with Royal Sports?

-- The Player responded 'No.'

2. Did The Shrink or The General try in any way to get you to lie against Royal Sports?

-- The Player responded 'No.'

The findings of the polygraph expert, John Balard (below) show that the player LIED in his response to question #1.

The findings also show that the player told THE TRUTH in question #2.

In this case, my final judgment is IN FAVOR OF ROYAL SPORTS and no monies are owed to the Player.

Summary:

In all of the years I have handled disputes, I have never been involved in any that were as complicated and confusing as this. The Player was convincing, consistent and adamant that he was telling the truth. He stated all along that he never placed any bets with ROYAL SPORTS in June and maintained the position that ROYAL SPORTS owed him twenty thousand dollars.

On the other hand, ROYAL SPORTS stated that the Player was fabricating this story, and Royal provided online AUDIO tapes that clearly sounded like the Player's voice placing the bets.

So why didn't I immediately rule in favor of ROYAL?

As everyone knows, ROYAL SPORTS had a past history of occasionally slow paying clients. Clearly, this is not the industry standard. Had ROYAL this issue not been present, I'd have never brought in a Polygraph Expert for assistance and I would have ruled immediately in favor of ROYAL-- end of story.

Furthermore, ROYAL never sent me the original copy of the tapes that I asked for. According to one Voice Expert I called upon, he stated that the original tapes were mandatory in order to have them dated and time stamped for authenticity.

Ironically, when I discussed this case with another upper tier sport books in our industry, I told them that had they provided the type of evidence ROYAL had done, I'd have never asked them for these tapes. Interestingly, this other upper tier book responded back by saying, "we'd have INSISTED on sending them to you."

To conclude, I extend my deepest and most sincere apologies to ROYAL SPORTS for dragging them into this fiasco and subjecting them to an unwarranted degree of scrutiny unprecedented in this industry.

It is my sincere hope that the management of Royal Sports will forgive me this trespass and remain cooperative in future endeavors to shed light on disputes if they arise again.

All I ever wanted throughout this ordeal was to find out THE TRUTH.

To my fellow gamblers, sports books and posters, I am a PLAYER ADVOCATE first and foremost. I did every-thing in my power to fight for a player I believed in.

I was DUPED!!!

However, I did whatever I could to seek for veracity and although it took time, I believe justice has been served.

I know that ROYAL SPORTS offered to compensate this player for this slow payment, but I don't believe ROYAL should pay him a penny. This would set a bad precedent to others who may have been slow paid. Also, seeing how this player dragged both ROYAL and myself though the mud and back, I once again rule in favor of ROYAL NOT TO PAY him another penny.

 

 

During this trying situation, I have been in consistent contact with the management of Royal and hope that they will endeavor to position themselves as a premiere sportsbook.

I'd also like to extend Special Thanks to sites such as Sportsbook Review, TOW, Major Wager, and TheRx, for their help in this matter...

Below is an attached copy of the Polygraph results and the resume of the expert I used:

THE SHRINK

 

Post Edited (THE SHRINK) : 7/12/2005 2:12:17 PM (GMT-4)

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THE SHRINK
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   Posted 7/12/2005 1:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

SEQ CHAPTER \h \r 1John Ballard

2414 Front Street, Suite 13
San Diego, CA 92101 - 1439

PI 005843
Investigations & Polygraph
Telephone: 619/ 234-7700

July 11, 2005

Ken Weitzner (AKA: The Shrink)
E-Mail:  HYPERLINK "mailto:[email protected]" [email protected]

Pursuant to your request, I administered a “Vertical” Polygraph Examination to:
David Jeremy WXXXX Age 34 DOB: XX-XX-XX Photo ID: CDL# XXXXXXXX

Test Procedures, Chart Analysis, Evaluation & Scoring

The “relevant” Issues in this Polygraph Exam were “tested” by asking & recording the Examination Questions & Answers on each of 3 separate Examination Charts.

Each Chart was then carefully Analyzed, Evaluated and Scored, using the Backster Zone Comparison-son Technique; which “numerically scores” the differences in Reaction /Lack of Reaction between Relevant Questions (Code #33, #35) and Control Questions (Code # 46, #47, #48).

* See Attached: Chart Scoring & Scoring Ranges


Relevant Questions (Code #33, #35) Answers & Results


#33 On
June 12, 2005
, or any time in June, did you place any bet of any kind with Royal Sports ? No.

Conclusion: FAILED with a Score of -12 (Failing for 3 Charts is -7 and below.)
Opinion: NOT TRUTHFUL when answering Relevant Question # 33.



#35 Did The Shrink or The General try in any way to get you to lie against Royal Sports ? No.

Conclusion: PASSED with a Score of + 7 (Passing for 3 Charts is +4 and above)
Opinion: TRUTHFUL when answering Relevant Question # 35.


John Ballard
Polygraph Examiner


Chart Scoring & Scoring Ranges

To: Ken Weitzner (AKA: The Shrink)
From: John Ballard, Polygraph Examiner
Re: David J. Weiss Polygraph Examination 07-11-05

“Vertical” Chart Scoring

Chart # 1 # 33 # 35

Cardio - 2 + 1
GSR 0 0
Breathing - 2 + 1

Chart # 2

Cardio - 2 + 1
GSR - 2 0
Breathing - 1 + 2

Chart # 3

Cardio - 1 0
GSR - 1 + 1
Breathing - 1 + 1
___ ___
Totals: - 12 + 7


“Vertical” Scoring Ranges


Number of Charts Failing Inconclusive Passing

3 Charts - 7 and below - 6 to + 3 + 4 and above

RESUME
July 2005


FULL NAME: John Edward Ballard
AGE & DOB 60 yrs 02-09-45

BUSINESS: John Ballard Investigations & Polygraph
2414 Front Street, Unit 13, San Diego, CA 92101
Phone: (619) 234-7700


OCCUPATION & Private Investigator
EXPERIENCE 32 Years - Specializing in Criminal Defense & Civil Court Cases

Polygraph Examiner
28 Years - Specializing in Criminal Defense & Civil Court Cases
Conducted 3,000 + Polygraph Exams for Private Attorneys;
Public & Alternate Public Defenders; Private Businesses & Persons
Testified as Qualified Polygraph Expert in Superior Courts



WORK / CHARACTER REFERENCES:

Practicing Attorneys Peter J. Hughes, Esq. Michael Marrinan, Esq.
Kerry Steigerwalt, Esq. James F. Pokorny, Esq.
Michael D. McGlinn, Esq. Joseph Milchen, Esq.
Alex Landon, Esq. Howard Frank, Esq.
Fred U. Hammett, Esq. Nicholas N. De Pento, Esq.

Officials / Experts William D. Mudd, Judge Frank Brown, Judge
Federico Castro, Judge Melinda J. Lasater, Judge
Robert May, Judge Allan J. Preckel, Judge
John S. Einhorn, Judge Frederick Link, Judge
John S. Meyer, Judge Patricia Robinson, PCC Director


EDUCATION

San Diego State University Bachelor of Science Degree (1967)
Western State University - College of Law 63 Units Completed (1974)
Officer Candidate School - US Army Commissioned Officer (1969)


SPECIALIZED TRAINING Intelligence Officer Courses, USA and Vietnam
Backster School of Lie Detect

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Oldfriend
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   Posted 7/12/2005 2:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Roberto?

Your standing in line here??? Your turn!!


all we need is bonus!

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TOW
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   Posted 7/12/2005 2:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
7/12/2005 The Royal Sports dispute resolved
On July 11th 2005 the player who filed a slow pay complaint against Royal Sports (r.1) has voluntarily taken a polygraph test with Mr. John Edward Ballard and lied in his reply about placing the disputed bets on June 12th 2005. This exam has finally cleared Royal Sports from the undue accusation of having tampered with the tapes related to the bets placed by the player on June 12th 2005. TheOffshoreWire expresses its sincere apologies to Royal Sports for having erroneously taken for granted the player's statements on the allegedly doctored bets. All previous posts will be amended in accordance to the final development of this dispute.
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Oldfriend
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   Posted 7/12/2005 2:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Shrink and Roberto,

Its take a big man to admit you was wrong..Lets hope the good people at Royal can overcome this awful situaion... and become one of the top offshore sportsbooks in the industry again..


all we need is bonus!

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sheva
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   Posted 7/12/2005 2:20 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Since when did this test become the ultimative truth? No saying that the players is right or not, just wondering how you can take this test 100% seriously?
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marc
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   Posted 7/12/2005 2:41 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sheva,

Although there is always the possibility of error, the biggest concern involving lie detectors are that pople who can remain calm while lying will pass. Generally when the test detects a lie, it is usually true.
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drunkguy
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   Posted 7/12/2005 3:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
there is always the possibility of a false positive in these tests

however, all the other evidence was overwhelmingly against the player.
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sheva
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   Posted 7/12/2005 3:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok. Glad to hear the he diden´t loose all "his" money only because of some lie detector test!
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TOW
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   Posted 7/12/2005 3:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sheva,

The player had been extremely consistent and detailed in exposing the facts. Ken and General first, myself after  honestly believed him over Royal.

A few days ago DG spotted a detail (in one of the tapes the player was asking to wager on a sport event that has taken place only in three occasions in these last years). That was the first and most convincing piece of evidence that the player could have been lying.

While Royal was "wobbling" on the tapes issue Ken decided to push the player to take a lie detector test. The one according to which he lied about not placing his bets on June 12th.

I am glad we have reached closure on this incredibly complex and tormented dispute.

Post Edited (TOW) : 7/12/2005 3:54:28 PM (GMT-4)

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sheva
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   Posted 7/12/2005 3:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well. I´m glad you are glad.
And lets hope that a lie detector test will never be used in a gambling related case again. It only belongs in fucked up american reality shows!
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TOW
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   Posted 7/12/2005 4:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm quite positive that we will hardly see a case like this one in the future. In this particular event there have been such a combination of deceiving events that they would have confused anyone.

The best way to avoid these kind of situations is to pay players on demand. You will hardly see an Olympic or a Pinnacle or a WSEX questioned because of events ignited by a slow pay.
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Shaun
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   Posted 7/12/2005 9:08 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So...the person who made the aligations was lieing the entire time? I mean, royal sports really took a beating reputation-wise. I personally got spooked and withdrew what I had from there. Is the damage irreversable?

On another point, could anyone tell me who is winning the sussex vs kent county champs for cricket? I know nothing about cricket, and have no idea how to read the scores etc. I know that it is a 4-day match but I would really like to know the score in terms i can understand. Thanks for help!


Manage the Book, not the Player

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TOW
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   Posted 7/12/2005 9:44 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Shaun,

The player did not lie about being slow paid. Even Royal admitted having slow paid the player for over two months.

The player lied about his last three bets which he claimed he didn't place but the lie detector showed otherwise.
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Shaun
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   Posted 7/12/2005 10:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok, so he requested a cash out, which royal did not process for over 2 months. I can only think of negative reasons why royal would not pay him....either with hope that he would lose the money, or because they don't have enough money to pay him. Either way these methods are sneaky and deceitful: personally I would never use or recommend this book ever again.


Manage the Book, not the Player

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Oldfriend
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   Posted 7/12/2005 11:19 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Shaun,

Its clear you have not read the proper facts about this guys so called slow pay..To tired of this mess to post details that you if read post would of seen.


all we need is bonus!

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drunkguy
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   Posted 7/13/2005 12:38 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Shaun, yes the man was slow-paid. I don't think that was ever in dispute. And yes it is a potential warning sign. As we have said on this forum, it is important to weigh your risk vs reward.

With that said, the "golden rule" in this business is that a bet is binding. That always has to come first and foremost, otherwise everything will fall apart. If he made the bet, he has to pay the repurcussions.
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raiders72001
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   Posted 7/13/2005 8:23 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Something smells here. Royal tells the player to admit to lieing and that they will pay him 20k. The player says no and that he'll take a lie detector test. Now this guy know's he's lieing but decides to take a lie detector test losing the 20k........ More money switched hands here than we know about.
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Shaun
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   Posted 7/13/2005 2:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
TOW said...
Shaun,

The player did not lie about being slow paid. Even Royal admitted having slow paid the player for over two months.


I base my opinion on this...he was not paid on time for one reason or another. Also my friend had to wait 5 days for $2500 CAN
It took him 3 telephone calls and 1 live support session to get his cash.


Manage the Book, not the Player

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