The Offshore Wire The Offshore Wire dotNetBB Forums : Join the Revolution dotNetBB Forums : Join the Revolution
  HomeLog InRegisterCommunity CalendarSearch the ForumHelp
   
The Offshore Wire Forum > Offshore Gambling Information > Offshore Sportbooks > Sports book solvency issues - Which do you consider to be strong warning signs ?   Forum Quick Jump
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

TOW
Founder



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to TOWAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1771
 		    Posted 3/30/2005 9:59 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Despite the existance of a watchdogs information network, players are the ones that direclty perceive warning signs when interacting with their books.
 
What do you consider as serious warning signs of a potential state of insolvency and how do you weigh negative experiences reported by forum posters ?
 
 
Back to Top
 

THE SHRINK
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to THE SHRINKAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 18
 		    Posted 3/30/2005 10:19 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
1- "The Check is in the Mail" (when it isn't)...
 
2- "He's in a Meeting, please call back"...
 
3- "It's a Holiday, so the banks are closed"
 
4- "We only offer payouts on Mondays from 9 AM EST until 12 Noon Pacific Time"
 
5-"FLUSH" (You hear the sound of a toilet in the background")...
 
With the only exception being # 4 , all of the other excuses have happened to me...
 
Best of Luck,
 
THE SHRINK
Back to Top
 

drunkguy
Registered Member



Click to send drunkguy email.Click to visit drunkguy's website.Send a Private Message to drunkguyClick to Add tepdrunk to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableClick to Add drunkguypsu to Your Y! Friends List.Click to Add drunkguypsu@hotmail.com to your MSN Buddy List.
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 944
 		    Posted 3/30/2005 10:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
tough to weight the opinions of forum posters...as we have seen, many times there is more to the story

reports of slow pays coming from reputable sources are important

suddenly offering large bonuses, and cold calling I think are sometimes a first warning sign
Back to Top
 

slash
Dispute Arbitration Panel Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to slashClick to Add therealvalles to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableClick to Add fisse@lige.nu to your MSN Buddy List.
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 326
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 7:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I consider it a warning sign if a friend of mine or a forum guy that I trust gives negative feedback about a book. Whatever is posted by web site/forum owners and moderators should be taken by a grain of salt.

If a book that has always paid on the same day (Pinnacle, Mansion, Oly, CRIS, DSI and so on) suddenly doesn't, I consider it a serious warning sign - if the book doesn't contact me and offer me an alternative method of payment.

Same goes for books suddenly offering reloads outside the usual periods (NFL early season, Superbowl, March Madness). If a book like Pinnacle ever offered me a reload bonus, I would withdraw every single $ I had with them...
Back to Top
 

Revere14
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to Revere14AIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 8
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 9:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When books start cold calling customers looking for deposits I think that is a very bad sign.

Revere14
Back to Top
 

sheva
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to shevaAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 206
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 11:26 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Slash: If a book like Pinnacle ever offered me a reload bonus, I would withdraw every single $ I had with them...
 
I would start dancing yeah
Back to Top
 

TOW
Founder



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to TOWAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1771
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 11:29 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sheva,

I understand your comment but believe Slash is 100% right. Pinnacle's reduced juice is THE bonus. Their hold ( somewhere in the range of 1,7% ) wouldn't allow them to grant reload bonus unless they would decide to lose money.
Back to Top
 

TOW
Founder



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to TOWAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1771
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 11:32 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Revere,

I agree with you to a certain extent. First Fidelity, for example, is a master in cold calling, yet solid as a rock. Cold calling may raise a red flag if performed by a book that never used this extreme marketing practice, but may just be on of the most annoying approach used by solid books as well.
Back to Top
 

sheva
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to shevaAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 206
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 1:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I know that Slash is right about this one...
Back to Top
 

slash
Dispute Arbitration Panel Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to slashClick to Add therealvalles to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableClick to Add fisse@lige.nu to your MSN Buddy List.
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 326
 		    Posted 4/1/2005 3:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think Slash is right about 87% of the time ;-)
Back to Top
 

Dante
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to DanteAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 53
 		    Posted 4/2/2005 9:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When you have to jump all of a sudden throw  hoops to get a small payout...or start faxing in ID CRAP and bull.....basicly when you stop paying instantly like Greek or pinny...that would be a warning sign IMO
Back to Top
 

JC
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to JCAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 17
 		    Posted 4/3/2005 12:37 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Warning sides might include:

1. Giving away the store with ridiculous bonuses that don't make financial sense. I'm not talking about short term novelty promotions. I am talking about long running bonus programs.

2. Gambling instead of booking, throwing up numbers because they are picking a side, not based on their action.

3. Of course any legitimate slow pays. By legitimate I mean any slow pay that's not the result of an administrative error. We all know the difference.

4. Refusal to publicly address concerns.

5. Hearing that things will be ok, the "investors" just need to put some money in. Books should do their own banking, they shouldn't rely on the "investors" to constantly be moving money to pay off customer deposits.

Bottom line is any book that is tapping into customer money to pay daily expenses is insolvent. That's not the way to run a business.
Back to Top
 

drunkguy
Registered Member



Click to send drunkguy email.Click to visit drunkguy's website.Send a Private Message to drunkguyClick to Add tepdrunk to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableClick to Add drunkguypsu to Your Y! Friends List.Click to Add drunkguypsu@hotmail.com to your MSN Buddy List.
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 944
 		    Posted 4/3/2005 2:10 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
great post JC and good to see you around
Back to Top
 

TOW
Founder



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to TOWAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1771
 		    Posted 4/3/2005 8:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Welcome to towforum JC. We are honored to have you here.

I totally agree with your post. As you are aware I have been at the helm of a troubled book in one of its most difficult moment, and can only agree with you, given that the state of the operation was in when I was sent to rescue it was because of some of the reasons you have listed.

I would also add lack of managerial skills. Poorly run operations are likely to have an excessive overhead and lack of internal controls and inexistent checks and balances in place.

Post Edited (TOW) : 4/3/2005 9:39:14 AM (GMT-4)
Back to Top
 

merlyn
Registered Member



Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to merlynAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 64
 		    Posted 4/3/2005 9:36 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Agree, Roberto...   for me, the bottom line is that the organization needs to adhere to business principles.  Unfortunately, business principles and "buddies" normally do not mix unless there's the additional component of "steered business" based on perceived, sacred relationships.  This tactic never survives as eventually market forces squeeze this truth into a state of reality, people point fingers at each other, accuse each other of this and that and all the while true businesses sweep in to pick up what has value.  Business darwinism...   it can be postponed but can never be avoided.
Back to Top
 

RPM
Welcome to TOW



Click to send RPM email.Personal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to RPMClick to Add jdxprs to Your AIM Buddy List.ICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableClick to Add jdxprs@yahoo.com to your MSN Buddy List.
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 4619
 		    Posted 8/11/2005 12:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
one indicator im ALWAYS looking for is whether or not other books are doing money transfers with the book in question...
Back to Top
 

Shaun
Registered Member

Email Address Not AvailablePersonal Homepage Not AvailableSend a Private Message to ShaunAIM Not AvailableICQ Not AvailableY! Not AvailableMSN Not Available
Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 242
 		    Posted 8/11/2005 1:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
When I first started betting offshore (about 4 months ago) I used SBR ratings to make my decisions. Shortly after I discovered TOW forum and RX forum; now I use these 2 sites to follow the issues that arise.

Manage the Book, not the Player

Back to Top
 
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
 
Forum Information
Currently it is Friday, November 11, 2005 8:43 AM (GMT -5)
There are a total of 30,887 posts in 3,852 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 133 new threads and 608 reply posts. View Active Threads
Who's Online
This forum has 382 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, zex.
23 Guest(s), 25 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
lucifer, Mike, spidermonkey, BAUS, slash, Gulliver, nevell hall, onlòóker, RPM, roxygurl, KGUN, godzilla, Lawrence, jisav, TheGuesser, codeworks, Darrin, Kevy, raiders72001, soli, TOW, bigboydan, Halifax, juuso, LLXC
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2005

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual | Powered by Warpstock.DE