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The Offshore Wire Forum > Offshore Gambling Information > Offshore Sportbooks > Is it good for the industry to have the so called <Watchdog Sites> working together?   Forum Quick Jump
 
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raiders72001
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 9:47 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I noticed more and more these sites are working together. You see banners hung at sites of others. In the past all of these sites seemed to be independent but that can no longer be said. Does this hurt the player?
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 9:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
shouldnt hurt the players at all if the sites that work together all agree to only accept advertising from the upper tier books...
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raiders72001
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 9:52 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's a good point that you mention. It seems that the sites taking top level books are working together while the sites taking anyone who pays are on their own.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 9:54 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
raiders,

exactly. for instance how can a site like tow be supportive of a site that has a book like bcn advertising there. (btw, yes i know mw has taken bcn down finally...)
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mdmike
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 10:03 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
sites taking advertisin money from shit books need to get there head out of there ass
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 10:06 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
mdmike said...
sites taking advertisin money from shit books need to get there head out of there ass
 
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 11:44 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
shouldnt hurt the players at all if the sites that work together all agree to only accept advertising from the upper tier books...


first, you say that as if there is some objective measure of "top books". There isn't. Some are generally agreed upon, but everyone agree on BetPanAm too...

second, everyone in agreement ALWAYS is worse for players. The more independent opinions that are available, the easier it is for a player to make informed choices

Third, a "top books only" advertising policy may sound good in principal, but the books will see diminishing returns over time, lessening a site's income from advertising. They will eventually be forced to accept newer books or see their profits fall.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 11:49 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dg,

how would only accepting top books create diminishing returns? that makes no sense.

and i do believe their can be "objective measure" of top books. not hard to put a certain criteria on books to rate them in a uniform way....
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kosar
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 12:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
rpm, tow was touting BCN until recently, so save it. And First Fidelity is not any top-tier book.
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 12:42 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM said...
dg,

how would only accepting top books create diminishing returns? that makes no sense.

and i do believe their can be "objective measure" of top books. not hard to put a certain criteria on books to rate them in a uniform way....


diminishing returns meaning you have more new readers yesterday and today then you will have tomorrow. The rate of growth for a new forum is not constant

A book like Bowmans can put a banner up here forever, but after a time there is a point where it is not going to be driving enough traffic to be justified, as everyone has already seen the banner, many have already tried the book, etc. Not enough new views to make hanging a banner effective. They are paying to acquire new accounts, not paying to keep maintaining the same accounts. That is unless you bring the cost down which means less profit for the forum owner, which means you have to accept more books to keep your profits growing


Now regarding "objective criteria, I would love to see TOW (or SBR or any other site) provide a list of objective grading criteria. For instance, please tell me what separates a "9" book from a "7" book. You are going to find out this is a lot harder than it sounds. I think there is maybe only 1 person who has attempted to do so.
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Drunk
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 12:57 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
TOW changes his mind as often as the wind blows. Anything he says you just take as the flavor of the day. He is a master manipulator and trying too become like SBR who is a master marketer. All these sites are about is how much the OWNERS of these sites can make for themselves. Nothing wrong with making a living, but the posters should take anything these sites say with a grain of salt and do they own due dillegence. Bottom line........If you want the truth, don't expect it here or any other forum.
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base
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 		    Posted 8/29/2005 1:13 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would think that would be a very good way to go, at least some form of communication between the sites. As I think about it, it probably happens anyway.
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 5:46 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RPM, do you honestly think 777Rock is a "top tier" book?
 
They are at best a promising newcomer, no way top tier...
 
RPM said...
shouldnt hurt the players at all if the sites that work together all agree to only accept advertising from the upper tier books...
OK, maybe you should start here since that is how you feel.

and still waiting on those "objective criteria" for rating a sportsbook.  Feel free to post them here when ready.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 5:51 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
drunkguy,

yes i consider them an upper tier book with the reputation they have earned in the offshore scene over the last couple years.

and i said i think its possible to have a set criteria. i didnt say i was the person writing it.


i don't get you lately bro. why so negative all the time? you come over here from the site YOU call your home, that advertises ROYAL of all books, and you have a problem with us accepting 777???

I just don't understand...
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:02 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
i guess dimebetting would be upper tier too? I see Roberto is thinking about bringing them on

The negativity is due to people using misleading statements. What "reputation" has 777 Rock earned? All you have to go on is what Roberto is feeding you. Post-up is totally different biz than credit, a lot of people have found that out the hard way.

I have no problem with you accepting anyone as an advertiser. I have a problem with you considering new books and "bailed out" books as "top tier" operations. You are the guys that are telling everyone that TOW only accepts top-tier books as advertisers, not me. But I expect you to hold yourselves to that statement. You are not right now.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dg,

i have my own contacts to find out info about books. very little of the information i have comes from roberto.

As far as dimebetting goes, if a book that had issues in the past is picked up by a strong book and brought under their umbrella, then yes i would consider them an upper tier book.

just like betjm was considered upper tier right from the start because oly stood behind them...
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:07 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
so a book that is brand new to credit biz, picks up a bankrupt book and bails them out, and now both are "top tier"?

As a poster at Fezzik's Place says, "you can't make it up"

do you guys even bother to think before you start typing?
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TOW
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:11 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
DG,

I understand you are a bit confused. Let me make an example: Dimeplayer was about to fail last year in July. Some of TOW readers have a direct experience with that situation as well. I hooked them up with Legendz. The minute after they were under Legendz umbrella and with Legendz guarantee they would stand good for them, i would have not hesitated a split second to have them as sponsors.

Another example: few would have wanted Cybersportsbook before they were bought by Betcorp (WWTS). Now everybody wants them.

The same applies for Dimebetting. John Vega was kind enough to disclose their current set up. If I get confirmation that 777 stands good for them I will have no problem in accepting them as sponsors.

As I said in another post: players funds safety IS and remains my top concern. There are no exception to this. I have done a deep due diligence on 777 and have come to the conclusion they meet the criteria that weighs more in my rating: solvency.

The same goes for BCN: Yes they did wrong, yes they cancelled valid props but there has not been a SINGLE slow pay reported and all players that have been referred there by TheOffshoreWire have been paid in a matter of minutes. This doesn't absolve them from their mistakes nor makes them trustworthy, yet they have lived up to my major concern which is and remains players funds safety.
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RPM
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:28 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dg,

i think you should try to do a little research regarding 777 before YOU start typing. you're wrong here...
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Rainbow
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:29 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Drunk, I wish I could prove it , but I am as good as anybody when it comes to reading people, I would be willing to bet that you are carried out this week with 777 Rock, this book has more money than you ever seen in your life behind them, and I would bet would ever you like on that. I know one thing they are not SCARED of nobody, I know that for a fact, and by the way they dont copy Delmar's line, I will make a wager on that too. alot of people made mistakes in the past about books, you have to remember GOD is the only one that is PERFECT, BUT I think its alot better everywhere these days, my two cents.
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Rainbow, I am not making a judgement as to whether they are a decent shop or not.

I am saying it is premature to start using them in the same sentence as Pinny, Oly, CRIS, etc, i.e. "top tier"

We had the same "testimonials" on MANY books that have failed in the past.

A responsible forum would take a "wait and see" approach before calling them top tier. I am certainly not advocating against them advertising anywhere. But let's keep the hype to a minimum until they have an established post-up record. Let the professionals feel them out first before we start touting them to recreational players. That is the only sensible course of action.
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TOW
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
DG, I don't get it....where's the hype ? A welcome thread ? A banner ?

If i didn't know you in person I'd be lead to believe yours was an intentional spin. I know its not, but still miss the point....
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RPM
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:49 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dg,

first of all, you are twisting my "upper tier" statement into TOP tier. i dont think anyone is saying they are already on a level playing field with oly, pinny or cris.

with all books, its risk vs. reward. and to use what you just said about letting pros feel them out.... that has already been happening for the last couple years.

again, do some investigating on your own and see what you come up with before posting about stuff like this. we are well aware of what we have posted regarding taking upper tier books as advertisers, so that alone should tell you how we feel about 777.
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Rainbow
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Drunk, maybe you need to do some research on them like me, I know they do transfers with Pinnacle, Cris and Delmar and plus they are booking every wiseguy in the world, that's all I need for my info about this book. I know for a FACT if they werent solid trust me I dont think they would be getting transfers from these top books, I dont think its noway possible for a supposely new book to get all these references if they werent solid, I'm done arguing about it, if you are SCARED dont use them, its real simple.

 

 
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drunkguy
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 		    Posted 9/4/2005 6:56 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
???

"upper tier" does not equal "top tier"?

how many goddamn tiers are there?


anyway I made my point, your readers can judge for themselves

Post Edited (drunkguy) : 9/4/2005 7:06:29 PM (GMT-4)
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