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FISHHEAD
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   Posted 8/30/2005 8:35 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I posted this at TheRX and thought a few of you posters here may benefit from a few of these personal primers of mine for wagering the NFL this upcoming season.
 
These are jusa a few things that have enabled me personally to stay in the BLACK in regards to wagering on NFL football over the last 25 years.

A few of these are NOT SET IN STONE for everybody, but my personal primers...........feel free to add your own that have worked for YOU.

1. SHOPPING LINES---Always attempt to get the best possible line available, and on the same token, very rarely do I ever wager a game where I could have had a better number.

2. WATCH AS MANY GAMES AS POSSIBLE---Many feel this is unnecessary.....not me. If one can watch a game totally with unbiased opinion and search for unknown little public clues, it can help tremendously the following week.

3. NEVER LAY OVER -3 ---When I say never, I mean never! Havent laid over 3 points in any NFL game(not taking middles into consideration which are rare) for well over 10 years. Some individuals may find this as a fault, but for me personally it makes my job much easier for a number of reasons and I can almost promise you if you have been a losing NFL handicapper through the years and do nothing else but adopt this rule, your results will improve dramatically.

4. Never take +6.5 if...you can buy a game to +7 for a mere 10 cents or less! This is especially true since the inception of the 2-point conversion in the rules.

5. Keep good records---Know exactly how you are doing on the year in terms of W-L record and more importantly moneywise. This is a no-brainer that should be applied in every sport.

6. Know the top PUBLIC teams on a weekly basis---This is very very important to know. Sometimes this is not an easy thing for the beginning neophite NFL handicapper to take seriously and/or to know who these team actually are on a weekly basis. Once realized, I go against these teams approximently 75% of the time.

7. Know injuries and understand them--- Ask yourself how an injury will effect a team.......both from a team standpoint and how it is effecting the spread. Remember, teams will more times than not tend to cover the spread the first time out after a major injury to a superstar for the reasons stated above.........the public will be against them and they will have a greater chance of being favored by less than -3 and may in fact be an underdog.

8. Money management---Establish a "betting bankroll" and determine a % of that BR to wager on each game. One key to my personal success is that I never RETRACT the size of my unit wager once the season starts, but allow myself to wager more per game as the season progresses or in certain situations. Of course this does not include very very small wagers that I will just call my "recreational" wagers that over time have no real impact on my BR whether I win or lose. Obviously could go on and on and on about this subject. The important thing I recommend here is THAT YOU HAVE A PLAN SET FORTH BEFORE THE SEASON BEGINS ON HOW YOU PERSONALLY ARE GOING TO HANDLE WINNING AND LOSING STREAKS AS THE SEASON PROGRESSES...........BE PREPARED AND HAVE A SET PLAN OF ACTION.........DO THIS WEEKS BEFORE YOUR FIRST WAGER!!

In closing, it is strictly CHANCE that you found this thread.

It is also CHANCE that you chose to read it and are presently looking at this sentence.

The ODDS are very high that indifference will govern your reaction or responses to it, and it is quite PROBABLE that those who do read this and haven't given these topics any previous thought, never will.

Remember, luck is whimsical and I do not place any hope or stock in it........for the most part. :)

Enjoy and here is to a successful NFL season!



-Fish-
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TOW
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   Posted 8/30/2005 8:58 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good stuff Fish...thanks.
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RPM
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   Posted 8/30/2005 9:44 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
THOSE ARE SOME EXCELLENT GUIDELINES FISH!~

thanks for bringing that over here...
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wantitall4moi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 11:15 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I won't break the list down point by point, but I don't agree with many of them. :) In terms of the NFL anyways.

 

The pointspread actually has very little to do with who covers the game. For the most part it is about 18% in the NFL win a team "covers" a number, meaning they win or lose within the perameters set. The other 82% of the time the dog win SU or the fave wins in a blowout. So getting the best number is not as imperitive as people think. It is basially a feel good thing.  If a guy has that half point he feels better, but in the real world that half point might help him 2-3% of the time, if even that.

 

Never lay more than 3, well you probably won't be betting too many football games, and at those spreads geenrally the ML BOTH ways is a better bet anyways. Meaning the line is small for a reason. Either a eam is made fave that shouldn't be fave due to a hot streak or being at home or public perception, so they are made a very small fave. Te flip side is also true, a home team is a 3 or less dog when they should probably be 5-6 point dog, but people have this fear of betting road fave so they trim the number down some to entice action. So taking the ML might be of more "value".

 

It isn't always about the better line but what is of more value. Soetimes the line/spread has more value, and sometimes a ML has more value. Obviously that is based on personalopinion. But getting +125 on a ML dog is better than +2 -110 over the long haul. If you win that is.

 

Watching games I can agree with that to some extent, but only for the first couple weeks, by then you have a feel for the teams. Or read the play by play breakdowns since watching that many games is pretty difficult and trying to get the info you need. Because eventually the handiocapping of the games is lost in the betting of the games. Handicapping is sightly overrated. I am sure that will garner some debates. But not many people win in the NFL handicapping, middling, or any strategy they apply. There are not enough games a year, and the scoring system makes it very difficult. Since a single score can turn a winner into a loser. So the margin for error isn't there.

 

I wouldn't buy up to 7 either at 6.5. It isn't even worth 5 cents to do that long term. If you think you need that half point to win find anothergame.That is something I have never understood. Peopl buying half points or trying to shop around for a half point. If you are that nervous thatthe game is that close find another game. The irony of people buying points is lost on a lot of people.

 

Record keeping. Is good if you don't bet a lot of games. I used to keep maticulous records, but soon the record keeping interfered with the betting itself. So when it starts intefering with the actual day to day betting it isn't imperative that you do it. Besides if you bet enough games they should all start running into eachother and no game should have more wieght than another.

 

There are a couple simple rules infootball that you need to know.

 

Expect to lose. If you go in thinking you are going to win you are sadly mistaken, I don't care how long you have been doing it. The football season is as square as sqare is when it come to the actual "art" of successfull gambling. The holds are a joke, the season is way to short, and the pointspreadsystem is very difficult to beat, especially when in the NFL the lines do not move all that much. The ONLY reason the spointspread system works in NCA football and the NBA and NCAA hoops is because the lines move a loot, and the scoring system in hoops is a lttle less constrictive. Way too many things going against people in the NFL. Probably why not many if any actually make money at it trying to pick winners. And even those that do aren't making a mint.

 

It is definately one that is made to entertain, and not make money in.

 

But as for MY rles I don't have many.

 

But I would never tease a 6.5 fave to a -.5 in a teaser. But I don't bet teasers so no worries.

 I almost always bet +3.5 dogs on the ML blind.

I bet the ML a lot more than I take or lay points, even with favorites.

I will bet parlays if I have a few cards to compare and get better numbers and better odds to get a few free shots.

 

 

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FISHHEAD
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   Posted 8/30/2005 11:53 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
wantitall4moi said...

II wouldn't buy up to 7 either at 6.5. It isn't even worth 5 cents to do that long term. If you think you need that half point to win find anothergame.That is something I have never understood. Peopl buying half points or trying to shop around for a half point. If you are that nervous thatthe game is that close find another game. The irony of people buying points is lost on a lot of people.

 

 

 

 

 

It is worth a tad OVER 10 CENTS to do so.

Also, shopping for a half point is not OVERrated.  You make mention that if a half point makes that big a difference, find another game.  NO MATTER THE GAME, ONE WOULD BE FOOLISH TO NOT TRY AND FIND THE BEST LINE.........THIS IS A NO BRAINER.

-Fishhead-

 


 

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coconutman
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   Posted 8/30/2005 12:37 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good read, i'll take that into considiration.


"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." -Ralph Waldo Emerson.

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raiders72001
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   Posted 8/30/2005 2:18 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Disagree with #3. Anytime you see an edge, play the game no matter what the line. I agree that you should buy +6.5 to 7 for 10 cents. It's worth more than 10 cents. If it where only worth 5 cents or less than it wouldn't hurt to sell from 7 to 6.5 for the extra 5 cents.
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base
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   Posted 8/30/2005 2:43 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good stuff guys and very helpful guidelines.
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FISHHEAD
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   Posted 8/30/2005 2:45 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
raiders72001 said...
Disagree with #3. Anytime you see an edge, play the game no matter what the line. I agree that you should buy +6.5 to 7 for 10 cents. It's worth more than 10 cents. If it where only worth 5 cents or less than it wouldn't hurt to sell from 7 to 6.5 for the extra 5 cents.
Can respect that reasoning and that makes 100% sense.
 
For me personally though, I still refuse to do it in the NFL, for a variety of underlying reasons.
 
-Fish-
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bigboydan
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   Posted 8/30/2005 2:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
raiders72001 said...
Disagree with #3. Anytime you see an edge, play the game no matter what the line.
now, i agree with your thoughts on this one myself raiders smile


a good capper is only as good as his info.

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RPM
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   Posted 8/30/2005 3:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This thread is so sharp, somebody is going to get cut!!!
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cossi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 3:47 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for sharing, gang, very good information here
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wantitall4moi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 5:00 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Well according to my numbers I have these results...

 

Since 1984 there have been 306 games closing -7. Of those 306 games there have been 12 pushes, that is about 4%. Since 1994 there have been 157 games lined -7, with the same 12 pushes, that is 7.6%. So pre 1994 according to the source I use there were no pushes from 85 thru 93. SO overall it isn't worth a nickle, but since 94 it is worth about 7.6 cents. But then again BUYING OFF a number is slightly different. I don't have the results for games that closed 6.5 and the fave won by 7, I could find out, but I doubt very highly it is even 3%, not to mention you aren't even buying for a win, you are simply buying to PUSH. Which compounds the math problem when you do it.

 

Also an odd side note. Since 2002 there hasn't been a push on 7 either. Again according to the source I use. That is 33 games  in the 2003 and 2004 seasons. That makes it zero percent those years when you bought to seven whe you needed to do it.

 

While getting the best line is obviously the best thing and if you have several books you want to take the best number (and best hold), there is no need to drive around or open an account at some off the wall book to get a half point. Especially when you are buying to an even number to gain a push, buying off a hook to get a win is slightly better, but still won't pay off if you do it all the time.

 

But it all depends on when you do it. If you do it at just the right time and gain ethe benefit more than it is a waste then by all means do it, but if you bet enough games, over the long haul it will not pay off.

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drunkguy
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   Posted 8/30/2005 7:05 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
want it all, pushing 7.6% does not mean it is worth 7.6 cents

when we say something is "worth 10 cents", it means we are willing to go from -110 to -120 generally.

Something that pushes 10% of the time is worth more than 20 cents (you should be willing to go from -110 to -130 to buy it, like NFL 3's)
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raiders72001
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   Posted 8/30/2005 7:30 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Drunkguy hit it on the head. Percentage and Cents aren't the same which is what Wantit is using. Also cents will change as the line moves. 13 cents at -110 is much diferent than it would be at -180. That's why it's actually best to describe in percentages .
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wantitall4moi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 7:33 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Ya I got twisted there.

 

7 Is actually worth double and about 15 cents. If you could nail down 3 at 10% then YES it is "worth" 20 cents. But that is only to buy OFF for win, buying to get a tie is maybe 75% more or about 12 cents (for 7). So Fish at "slightly more than 10 cents" is correct. But that also only works if you are betting every game and buying every time. If you pick and choose it throws the theory all off since you are now introducing opinion into something that you have used every example to get a "probability" for. Definately theoretical in nature.

 

You basically double the percentage probability rate to get what it is theoretically worth for a win. Or as said, buying  to a tie about 75% more than the probablity rate.

 

I still don't buy, simply because at some point the number you wanted/want was/is available. And more than likely it won't even come into play. If I was good enough to figure the 7-8% of the time a game was going to push I wouldn't have to worry about gambling anyways.

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wantitall4moi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 7:35 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And yes, at different hold values the cents are worth more or less. But when dealing wuith a suposed staic -110, they are supposed to be nuetral. But when was the last time someone saw a game -3 -110/-110 both ways?
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drunkguy
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   Posted 8/30/2005 8:12 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
wantitall4moi said...
 
But that is only to buy OFF for win, buying to get a tie is maybe 75% more or about 12 cents (for 7).


actually, buying onto the number is a superior bet than buying off.

reason being you are turning -110 into 0 when buying on (to push), you are turning 0 into +100 when buying off (for win).

Post Edited (drunkguy) : 8/30/2005 8:15:48 PM (GMT-4)

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cossi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 8:53 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
my head is spinning
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raiders72001
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   Posted 8/30/2005 9:03 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
just buy off/on 3 and 7 for 10cents in the NFL if you can get it.
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drunkguy
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   Posted 8/30/2005 9:32 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
cossi said...
my head is spinning


smilewinkgrin

rule of thumb for NFL

buy on/off 3 for 20 cents (-110 to -130)
buy on/off 7 for 10 cents (-110 to -120)

all the rest is academic
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cossi
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   Posted 8/30/2005 10:36 PM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
drunkguy said...
cossi said...
my head is spinning


smilewinkgrin

rule of thumb for NFL

buy on/off 3 for 20 cents (-110 to -130)
buy on/off 7 for 10 cents (-110 to -120)

all the rest is academic
Thank you :)
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Big Brother
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   Posted 8/31/2005 12:45 AM (GMT -5)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
good stuff
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