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Posted By : bigboydan - 4/14/2005 9:41 PM
lets say your a novis type bettor and you play anywhere from $100 to $500 a game. which books would you play at ?


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : Dante - 4/15/2005 8:02 AM
what UNDER those limits??  I would say Pinny and Oly...and skybook also

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/15/2005 10:51 AM
Dante said...
what UNDER those limits?? 
yes, with in those limits


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : TOW - 4/15/2005 11:14 AM
BBD,

The average betsize of a recreational player is 20/40 bucks. As a matter of fact recreational shops have an average betsize ( overall ) of 80 bucks or lower.

I personally believe that squares perceive greater value in bonuses than reduced juice. In this respect a VIP Sports or Bodog would be a squares ideal best shot.

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/15/2005 11:19 AM
TOW said...
BBD,

The average betsize of a recreational player is 20/40 bucks. As a matter of fact recreational shops have an average betsize ( overall ) of 80 bucks or lower.
ok roberto but, is it really worth jumping threw all the hoops to those type of player in order to get paid there $100 in winnings.because, it always seems that all these square shops seem to try to slow pay everyone.
 
shouldn't safety be the key point here.


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : TOW - 4/15/2005 11:26 AM
Well, to the best of my knowledge neither VIP Sports nor Bodog has ever been reported slow paying. The only issues reported were about bonus abuses or wise guys policies. On the other hand I agree that there are a lot of shops out there that might lure recreational players with very attractive offers and then slow pay them, ala SportsInterAction.

This is why players should do their own due diligence and make searches about sportsbooks BEFORE sending their hard earned money offshore. This is why sites like The Offshore Wire and Sportsbookreview exist. We don't pretend to be the owners of absolute truth, yet we do strive to provide objective information about the industry.

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/15/2005 12:27 PM
TOW said...
 The only issues reported were about bonus abuses or wise guys policies.
i see your point. but, shouldn't the books staff have safety control right now top of the account before any action is even allowed.


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : TOW - 4/16/2005 9:27 AM
BBD,

Books have to analyze action, which means first they book it, then they profile it. This as far as wise guys policies go. Bonus abuse is more complex since "whores" have 101 creative ways to do it.

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/16/2005 10:52 PM
bonus whores or no bonus whores roberto. why should i have to wait a week for my money thats wrong. besides, if the books are so worried about a $80 bettor maybe there in the wrong bussiness.


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : Concorde - 4/16/2005 11:06 PM
TOW said...
BBD,

Books have to analyze action, which means first they book it, then they profile it. This as far as wise guys policies go. Bonus abuse is more complex since "whores" have 101 creative ways to do it.
That is a good business move Roberto but there is one big problem ... some books does not understand the difference between a lucky run that everyone could have ( and will have sooner or later ) and a "genuine" winning run made by a truly wise guy. VIP family of books believe that i am a wise guy, Island club casino told me that they were sure that i was bearding wow!! I only and always scalped with these two shops!!! Some books simply does not have the patience ( and some even the capacity ) to wait more time in order to correctly profiling a player. This is a marathon, not a sprint ...
 
Concorde

Posted By : raiders72001 - 4/17/2005 12:48 AM
Good question about the average size bet. Since the average bet is skewed by big players, the median is a better gauge on amounts bet by players. What's the median bet for recreational books and sharp books?

Posted By : Concorde - 4/17/2005 1:13 AM
You cant profile a player based on the size of his bet. Assuming that a scalper is not a professional player but is a recreational player ... a book can have two players ... both play 2 dimes on a game BUT one of these two could be a scalper ( scalpers bet all the maximum possibile of what they can one any single bet because it is difficult to find too many scalps ) so you cant profile a player based on his sizebet.
 
Concorde

Post Edited (Concorde) : 4/17/2005 1:16:33 AM (GMT-4)


Posted By : TOW - 4/18/2005 8:43 AM
Concorde,

Recreational books profile players on their playing patterns, not on the average betsize. Some pros know the "rules of the game" and manage to keep the account non profiled by keeping a very low average betsize ( 200-300 ), whereas greedy ones ( usually movers and followers ) bet the max and get profiled after a few plays.

Ever heard of the terms "the screen went black" after he/she wagered ?

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/18/2005 5:57 PM
roberto, some of these recreational books only have a online limit of $300 though. so, with that being said how can they be labeled as a sharp if there betting the max that there website allows you to bet. and, no the limits were like that when you first signed up with that book.


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : Concorde - 4/19/2005 4:10 PM
TOW said...
Concorde,

Recreational books profile players on their playing patterns, not on the average betsize. Some pros know the "rules of the game" and manage to keep the account non profiled by keeping a very low average betsize ( 200-300 ), whereas greedy ones ( usually movers and followers ) bet the max and get profiled after a few plays.

Ever heard of the terms "the screen went black" after he/she wagered ?
Roberto,
 
Scusami ma purtroppo non capisco esattamete cosa intendi, potresti scrivere due righe in italiano quando hai un podi tempo? L'argomento e' interessante.
 
Grazie,
Concorde
 
 
Excuse me Roberto could you please rewrite your answer in italian when you have a few time so that i will understand exactly what you mean? The argument is very interesting.
 
Thanks

Posted By : TOW - 4/19/2005 7:08 PM
TOW said...
Recreational books profile players on their playing patterns, not on the average betsize. Some pros know the "rules of the game" and manage to keep the account non profiled by keeping a very low average betsize ( 200-300 ), whereas greedy ones ( usually movers and followers ) bet the max and get profiled after a few plays.

Ever heard of the terms "the screen went black" after he/she wagered ?
I will translate this pharagraph in Italian for Concorde......
 
Gli sportsbook che servono i piccoli scommettitori, normalmente definiti "recreational" non profilano i loro clienti in base all'importo delle scomesse ma in base al tipo di scommesse. Alcuni professionisti conoscono le "regole del gioco" e riescono a mantenere i loro conti non "profilati" scommettendo piccoli importi ( duecento - trecento dollari per scommessa ), mentre gli scommettitori avidi ( movers, ovvero coloro che scommettono per conto dei sindacati e followers, ovvero coloro che hanno accesso alle informazioni dei sindacati ) scommettono sempre il limite massimo e vengono prontamente profilati.
 
Hai mai sentito menzionare il termine "lo schermo e' diventato nero" dopo che un professionista ha scommesso ? ... si dice cosi' quando arrivano scommesse da parte sei sindacati. Il volume di scommesse nei vari books e' cosi' elevato che Don Best diventa nero e le linee cambiano subito dopo....

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/19/2005 7:15 PM
TOW said...
 
I will translate this pharagraph in Italian for Concorde......
 
 
now will you translate it back to english roberto. :p


a good capper is only as good as his info.


Posted By : Concorde - 4/19/2005 9:32 PM
TOW said...
TOW said...
Recreational books profile players on their playing patterns, not on the average betsize. Some pros know the "rules of the game" and manage to keep the account non profiled by keeping a very low average betsize ( 200-300 ), whereas greedy ones ( usually movers and followers ) bet the max and get profiled after a few plays.

Ever heard of the terms "the screen went black" after he/she wagered ?
I will translate this pharagraph in Italian for Concorde......
 
Gli sportsbook che servono i piccoli scommettitori, normalmente definiti "recreational" non profilano i loro clienti in base all'importo delle scomesse ma in base al tipo di scommesse. Alcuni professionisti conoscono le "regole del gioco" e riescono a mantenere i loro conti non "profilati" scommettendo piccoli importi ( duecento - trecento dollari per scommessa ), mentre gli scommettitori avidi ( movers, ovvero coloro che scommettono per conto dei sindacati e followers, ovvero coloro che hanno accesso alle informazioni dei sindacati ) scommettono sempre il limite massimo e vengono prontamente profilati.
 
Hai mai sentito menzionare il termine "lo schermo e' diventato nero" dopo che un professionista ha scommesso ? ... si dice cosi' quando arrivano scommesse da parte sei sindacati. Il volume di scommesse nei vari books e' cosi' elevato che Don Best diventa nero e le linee cambiano subito dopo....
Roberto,
 
Si lo so che le giocate dei professional sono diverse dai recreational. Io non sono un professional ma scommetto sempre il massimo. E' ovvio che io, scommettendo sempre il massimo, "desto sospetti" e "mi guardano piu' attentamente". Un mio amico delle HI dice sempre "if you bet much, they will watch you more closely".
 
Quello che intendevo dire nel mio precedente post e' che un giocatore che scommette SEMPRE il massimo, NON SEMPRE e' un professional player ( puo' essere uno scalper e/o middler ). Questo fa si che alcuni book pensano che uno che scommette tanto sia SEMPRE O QUASI un professional player anche quando non fa scommesse tipiche dei professional ( altrimenti come spieghi il mio caso? ). Se ti capita di parlare con VIP dove io sono bandito ti diranno che pensano che io sia un wise guy cosa che io non sono. Islandclubcasino pensa che io sia un "beard. Chiama Tony il manager e chiedigli se non mi credi. Alcuni book sbagliano credimi, ammeno che non si pensi che uno scalper sia un professional player cosa che ovviamente non e'. Sarebbe interessante fare un post chiedendo quante volte un recreational player e' stato buttato fuori da un book come VIP ( scusa se insisto con loro ma sono "famosi" per questo ) per colpa di una fortunata serie di vincite. Ho gia letto di questi casi al the rx, ovviamente di players che dicevano di essere solo recreational.
 
PS. Penso che per schermo nero intendi quando ci sono quei movimenti dovuti alle giocate dei Sindacati ovvero le linee che cambiano nei book di mezzo, un punto etc. nel giro di pochi secondi.
 
Bye
Concorde
 
TRANSL ...
 
Yes i know that Plays of professionals are different that the ones made by recreationals. I am not a pro but i always bet the limit. Obviously i "give suspicions" and my accounts are watched very closely because i bet the limit.
 
What i meant in my previous post is that if a player ALWAYS bet the limit, NOT ALWAYS is a pro player ( could be a scalper, middler ). This makes that some books think that a player that bet the limit is a pro even if he does not made "profesional bets". It would be interesting to ask recreational bettors how many times they have been booted off by books like VIP ( sorry if i name them but they are famous for that ) only because they had a lucky run.
 
PS I think for black ... you mean when the line move by half, one point ect in a few seconds at sportsbook because of a syndicate play.
 
Concorde