The Offshore Wire Forum

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Posted By : Concorde - 4/15/2005 3:34 PM

37945414-1 9http://www9.pinnaclesports.com/images/ps_minus_sign.jpg	9:02am 12-Apr-05	15-Apr-05	Future	Soccer Futures - Champions' League - To a...	-900	9,000.00	Cancelled
				Champions' League To advance. Any Forfeit is No Bet. AC Milan vs Inter Milan AC Milan

Guys,

I think you know what happened last Wednesday in Uefa Champions league of soccer between Milan and Inter. Pinnacle is the ONLY book in the World that have grade that proposition as a no action. This HAVE COST ME ALOSS OF $950 because my Scalp on Inter has been graded a loss by an english book.

Pinnacle is claiming that they have a rule that say any forfeit is no bet. What forfeit means? Forfeit means that a game is not played, or better that THERE IS NOT ANY TYPE OF RESULT OF THAT EVENT.

We have a result on this case? YES. What is that? Milan have qualify. This has been the EXACT words that i have been told by 5dimes, William Hill, ladbrokes and Bet 365.

Here is William Hill rule ...

Postponed Or Abandoned Matches :

http://williamhill-lang.custhelp.co...w/img/trnsp.gif

An unplayed, postponed or abandoned match will be treated as a 'Non-Runner' for settling purposes unless it is played during the same 'Football Week' (Monday - Monday (GMT / BST Time), in which case the bet will stand unless cancelled by mutual consent. If 'Non-Runners' reduce an accumulator, the remaining selections will be settled irrespective of the minimums detailed in Rule 2. Under no circumstances will the judgement of any 'Pools Panel' be accepted as a result.
Any match which is abandoned before the completion of 90 minutes play will be void with multiple bets being settled on the remaining selections. This ruling applied to all lists with the exception of :
1. Bets involving 'First Player To Score', 'Next Goalscorer' or time of first goal, where bets will stand
provided the first / next goal has been scored at the time of abandonment.
2. Soccerstats or certain special bets where the winning market has already been established and
no other outcome is possible.
3. For half-time coupon see rule 8

Questions ...

1) How do you judge a book when they are the ONLY book in the World that have a different rule?

2) How you can write "any forfeit is no bet" in an event when IT IS IMPOSSIBILE TO NOT HAVE ANY OUTCOME, like William Hill write on his rules?

3) Why Pinnacle instead to write a "tricky" word like forfeit, does not CLEARLY write "if a match is abandoned all the bets are void"?

4 ) Next time that you want to play on this proposition bet, will you play with Pinnaclesport or with the other books considering the rules? I am sure that SCALPERS will not even watch Pinnacle odds considering that we are in a situation when the SAME result is graded in a different manner. For sure some players will not anymore wager with them on that.

5 ) Do you think that, if Pinnacle is REALLY the top class book that we all know, they should review that rule and make it like ALL THE OTHERS sportsbooks have, so not remain the only book with that rule?

6) Even if they decide to stay "alone" continuing to be the ONLY book in the World with that rule, should they explain what they means for "forfeit", should they explain how can an event like this be "forfeit" when it is IMPOSSIBILE to not have a result? ( again 99% vs 1% ).

I am going to close my account with Pinnacle for that reason. Rights for me are a MUST in this life and here i DO NOT got what i had to got.

Posted By : TOW - 4/15/2005 3:45 PM

Concorde,

I have forwarded the claim you privately filed to Pinnacle. Lets wait and see for their reply.

Thank you,

Roberto

Posted By : drunkguy - 4/15/2005 4:10 PM

I have a feeling Pinnacle is going to come back and tell you it is plainly explained on the ticket that forfeit = no action

Posted By : Concorde - 4/15/2005 4:18 PM

I read that rule when i place that bet. I do not understand forfeit means abandoned. For me a forfeit is when a game is not played and that DOES NOT GET ANY TYPE OF result ( if you do not play it you cant have a result ). But here WE HAVE a result. If they would have write "if a game is abandoned all best are void" i would have understand it.

In any case no more Pinnacle for me, i have close with them.

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/15/2005 5:20 PM

like the tennis rules they have had for the last 7 months now. if a player retires it's considered no action.

a good capper is only as good as his info.

Posted By : Concorde - 4/15/2005 5:48 PM

Got an explanation from them about what they mean for forfeit. If i would have know that they meant "abandoned" too, i would have not made that scalp obviously. When you play with books for 15 years, you have see that all the other books have a different rule and you do not exactly know what means one word of a different language, like forfeit ( do you know what means carota? ), this could happen.

It has been my guilt to not understand what they meant. It is not easy to "digest" a loss of $950 with an event that had the same result but grade differently. Today i have learn that even scalping is not 100% sure.

This story does not change the fact that i consider Pinnacle the best book of the World.

No anymore help needed Roberto.

Concorde

Posted By : bigboydan - 4/15/2005 6:37 PM

sorry it didn't workot for you sir, but, just goes to show you reading the rules of any book you play at is very important.

a good capper is only as good as his info.